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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: djsides on Tuesday 01 November 05 11:45 GMT (UK)

Title: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: djsides on Tuesday 01 November 05 11:45 GMT (UK)
The medal card of "Cyril John Smith" lists his Corps (Linc R) Rank (Pte) and regiment number (1845)

No medals are awarded, and above the Theatre of War it says

SWB/LIST/E/A/1645       followed by

Name erased therefrom
WG letter sent              (at least I think it's a "G")

any interpretation would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: djsides on Tuesday 01 November 05 11:57 GMT (UK)
If it helps here is a clickable link to an image of the card:

 (http://img11.imagevenue.com/loc12/th_b9d_Image1.jpg) (http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc12&image=b9d_Image1.jpg)
Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: Swampy on Tuesday 01 November 05 12:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Dave,

The reference to SWB relates to the Silver War Badge, sometimes called the Silver Wound Badge. It was awarded to all of those military personnel who were discharged as a result of sickness or wounds contracted or received during the war, either at home or overseas.

It would appear that the badge may have been issued in error, and that the man's name was subsequently removed from the award roll. Could the 'WG' in fact be 'WO' - as in War Office letter sent explaining the circumstances to the recipient?

Regards,
Swampy
Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: manmack on Tuesday 01 November 05 12:52 GMT (UK)
your spot on swampy,i have seen MICs with what looks like a G,mack
Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: djsides on Tuesday 01 November 05 12:59 GMT (UK)
Thanks, I understand what you are saying, but would the removal imply some form of dishonourable discharge?

Dave
Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: Swampy on Tuesday 01 November 05 13:30 GMT (UK)
It does not necessarily imply a dishonourable discharge. A self inflicted wound does not have to mean shooting yourself in the foot to avoid front line service. Let me give you an example; a soldier is posted somewhere hot, and stupidly ignores standing orders by not wearing the proper headgear. This results in a severe case of heatstroke, which permanently affects the man's eyesight, rendering him unfit for further military service. This could be classified as a self inflicted wound, and the man might even be charged with damaging government property, namely his own body. But if he were discharged under such circumstances, it would probably not be classified as dishonourable.

It could also be that your man was injured in training, or possibly developed an illness which the Army decided was the result of a pre-existing condition. If that were the case, they might feel justified in revoking his entitlement to the SWB. The options are probably endless, but not necessarily anything sinister!

Swampy

Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: manmack on Tuesday 01 November 05 15:12 GMT (UK)
other reasons are he was discharged through illness that wasnt caused by war.
it was issued to him by mistake.
or they got him mixed up with another man,he was awarded his war medals so he cant have done anything seriously wrong,a self inflicted wound would usually mean a forfeit of his medals,it was probably issued by mistake,mack
Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: manmack on Tuesday 01 November 05 15:14 GMT (UK)
dave,try the lads on the great war forum,theres a couple of them who know what those dept references mean,mack
Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: Swampy on Tuesday 01 November 05 16:55 GMT (UK)
Since the SWB was awarded to persons discharged through sickness, it doesn't make sense that he would forfeit the badge for simply being ill. There has to be another factor involved, which is why I suggested reasons for its forfeiture could include a pre-existing medical condition, or a self inflicted wound.

There are doubtless many other potential explanations, and his lack of campaign medals is probably due to the fact that he simply didn't meet the qualifying criteria before his discharge.

The serial SWB/LIST/E/A/1645 is just a reference to his entry on the roll, which may be inspected at Kew.

Swampy
Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: manmack on Tuesday 01 November 05 18:36 GMT (UK)
swampy,he does have medals,if he wasnt awarded any campaign medals then he wouldnt have a MIC,mack
Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: Kevwood on Tuesday 01 November 05 18:40 GMT (UK)
Mack, doesn't he have an MIC because he was wrongly awarded the SWB, Dave says in his post that there are no medals on it. They would have to produce one for just the SWB wouldn't they?

Kev.
Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: manmack on Tuesday 01 November 05 19:19 GMT (UK)
hiya kev,yes its possible,but not all the medal cards mention medals,others have no theatre of war on them,but you and dave could be right,i think the MICs were designed to drive us nuts kev,mack
Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: djsides on Tuesday 01 November 05 19:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks to you all for the replies.

I should perhaps point out that the image in the first reply of this thread (from me) is clickable if you want to see the MIC in detail.

Maybe the MIC was issued just to contain the SWB, but other sources indicate that a different form was normally used. http://www.1914-1918.net/mics.htm

Surely the fact that none of the "standard" medals were awarded means he never went overseas?

Verbal family history has it that he was either executed or imprisoned for going AWOL. He married in June 1915, on license, and the story goes that he went AWOL the following year to see his son. However, as the MIC/SWB was issued, it seems unlikely to me that he was executed. There's not a lot more I can add, other than it is known his wife brought up her son alone. So maybe he was killed, or just deserted her.
Dave
Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: manmack on Wednesday 02 November 05 00:55 GMT (UK)
dave,he wasnt killed,i checked the roll of honour,he wasnt executed,and he wasnt court martialled,i have all three books and hes not listed in any of them,mack
Title: Re: Help with WW1 Medal Card
Post by: djsides on Wednesday 02 November 05 09:55 GMT (UK)
Thanks manmack and all who contributed.
Dave