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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Katie123 on Wednesday 26 October 05 09:28 BST (UK)

Title: Medical records?
Post by: Katie123 on Wednesday 26 October 05 09:28 BST (UK)
Hi,

In the 1891 Census I found my grandfather, William George Hunt, as being a 15 year old patient in St. Bartholomew's Hospital in London.  He was born in Bermondsey and his occupation is down as being van boy.  None of my relatives have any idea what he could have been in there for, so I am wondering if there is anyway of tracking down medical records for that time and place, that would tell me why he was in there?

Many thanks,
Katie ;)
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: Tati on Wednesday 26 October 05 09:39 BST (UK)
Hi Katie,

a google search finds this:

http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/search2?coll_id=5108&inst_id=51

Tanja  :)
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: Katie123 on Wednesday 26 October 05 09:45 BST (UK)
Thanks for that.  It looks a bit confusing  :P - do you have any idea as to how I could find a direct patient record on it?

Thanks,

Katie ;)
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: Tati on Wednesday 26 October 05 10:05 BST (UK)
I don't think you have access online. You would need to go there or at least contact them. There's a link to the Hospital at the top of the page.

Tanja  :) 
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: Katie123 on Wednesday 26 October 05 10:56 BST (UK)
Oh right okay, thanks!

Katie :D
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: jaxishere on Wednesday 26 October 05 15:59 BST (UK)
I hope you do not mind me butting into this post , but I thought it maybe better than starting up a new post under a similar name

My Mom died in a accident in 1978 and I would like to see her medical records as I was only a young girl when it happened so only have what I have been told.

I know she died in hospital in Worcester but not sure in which hospital as there where three at the time.

Worcester Royal Infirmary Castle st Worcester
Ronkswood Hospital, Newtown Road, Worcester
Newtown Hospital Worcester

I do not think it was Newtown hospital, but was one of the other two.  However both these have now closed and a new hospital  has been built  The Worcestershire Royal Hospital

Does any one have any idea who I would apply to?

To be honest until I saw this post I did not even know you could assess these records or someone who had died. How long are medical records kept after someone dies?  and are GP records as well as hospital ones available

Thanks
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: Tati on Wednesday 26 October 05 16:16 BST (UK)
Well, I don't know anything about hospital records unfortunately. I tend to google much to find out things  ;)

I believe the first thing you would have to do is to get hold of your mother's death certificate so you know exactly what you are searching for. If she died in a hospital then it will give its name.

The second thing would be to start a new request after all  ;D - I'm sure somebody out there will be able to help!

Tanja  :)


 
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: Valda on Wednesday 26 October 05 17:05 BST (UK)
The web link re information on St Bartholomew's patients' records states

'Patients' notes up to 1900 were destroyed in 1941'

During the war some records were detroyed as the paper was pulped.

Old hospital records if they have been deposited in a record office are subject to the 100 year closure (though this closure is now more flexible because of the Freedom of Information Act).

More modern records would still be with the Health Authority. Health Authorities are busy places and don't have any money to employ anyone to root around in their old records.  A death certificate would give the information which hospital a person died in.
With a death caused by an accident (presuming the death diid not take place some time after) there would be an inquest. The Coroner's Office would either still hold the records or would have deposited them with a record office in this case Worcestershire.
However by far the easiest way to access information would be to hope that if there was an inquest it was covered by the local newspapers in which case you would usually find as much information in a newspaper report as in the Coroner's records and a lot easier to access. Worcestershire Record Office will be able to advise you on what local newspapers and dates are available.

Regards
Valda
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: jaxishere on Wednesday 26 October 05 17:17 BST (UK)
Valda

thank you for the information

I will go to our local history centre where they hold all the old newspapers.

My mother fell down the stairs and died 2 days later,  after the life support machine was turned off, would be an inquest for that
jacqui
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: Valda on Wednesday 26 October 05 17:30 BST (UK)
The death certificate would confirm whether there was an inquest. The Coroner would have decided on whether the circumstances of the death made it necessary to call an inquest. Inquests were/are called when the death was/is unexpected or occurred in unexpected circumstances.

Regards
Valda
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: Meliora on Saturday 19 November 05 11:12 GMT (UK)
Hello, Katie,

Forgive me coming into this hospital discussion a little late but I have only just read all the posts.  I don't know anything about St. Bart's records up to 1900 being destroyed in 1941, I can only tell you of my own experience.

I found that a 10 year old ancestor was in St Barts in 1891, I had found on the1901 census that he had only one leg, this aroused my curiousity as to why a 10 year old had a leg removed. The Archivist was most helpful & sent me all the details known about the boy from their records,,  parent's names, home address & why the leg had to be amputed.  Try their address or website, sending all details known.

The Archive & Museum,
North Wing,
St Bartholemews Hosptial,
West Smithfield,
London   EC1A  7BE

www.bartsandthelondon.nhs.uk/aboutus/museums_and_
archives.asp.

This also applied to the Royal London Hospital, when I asked about an aunt who had been burned in an accident at home, same time scale. I rec'd all details together with the name of the surgeon who had treated her. 

It was pointed out to me that these records are only available about patients who were admitted to hospital for treatment, if they were dead on arrival & not admitted a record was not entered in the admissions book.

Re. the Worcester Hospital, I suggest an application to the Archives Dept. of the new hospital might give a result as they may have taken over all the records of the previous hospitals.  Otherwise an enquiry at the Worcs Record Office might tell you where to look for help.

Hope this is of help

Meliora
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: jaxishere on Monday 21 November 05 09:54 GMT (UK)
Thank you to everyone who has replied
 
I am going to the records office tomorrow to get my mother death cert.  I spoke to the register and she said like everyone has allready said it will say on that if there was an inquest or post mortem.

I will also ask well I am there about medical records
where would be. The only problem is my mother only died in 1978 so they will properly not be available to me in my lifetime

I have a big blank in my life , what happened the night she fell down the stairs?   I was not there on a school residential trip and after it happened I was informed and taken into care I did not see her in hospital but did attend the funeral

I have snippets of information which I am not sure if they are true or  where I got them from, but pretty sure I have not made it up in my head. I was told properly by the home i was taken to

she was on a life support machinefor 24 hrs   but then it was turned off at 7pm  and she lasted till 1.23 am before she died. I life with that she properly was waiting for me to go and thats why she lasted so long without the machine. I am also sure I was told my mother and step father were argueing that night as the neigbours told the poilce.

I just wish I knew what happend that night and what happened in hospital before they turned off the machine


Jacqui

Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: behindthefrogs on Monday 21 November 05 11:27 GMT (UK)
If someone goes into hospital as the result of an accident and subsequently dies in hospital the death is referred to the coroner who decides if the accident was likely to have contributed to the death.  If there is any likelihood of this being the case then he will hold an inquest.

David
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: ejt on Tuesday 22 November 05 23:42 GMT (UK)
What a sad story jaxishere - you have had to live with lots of questions . Best of luck in your research.
Elaine
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: jaxishere on Wednesday 23 November 05 09:58 GMT (UK)
I thought I would up date

There was an inquest into my mother death it was held 5 days after she died. the verdict was misadventure

I asked the register where I would get hold of the inquest report and he said well it says here what she died of , I then said but where would i get the inquest report and he said again it says here what she died from, thats all you need to know. So I am know better off. 

Oh he did say any inquest report would be properly not be assessable anywhere due to data protection ?

I asked where I would get hold of medical records he said he didn't know, why don't you join a society they may be able to help?  Are there socialites?



Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: behindthefrogs on Wednesday 23 November 05 10:08 GMT (UK)
Try writing to the registrar quoting the freedom of information act.  I believe that under that act, as a direct descendant, you are entitled to the information.  It should also be free of charge as you are a private citizen.

David
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: jaxishere on Wednesday 23 November 05 10:22 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that information behindthefrogs

but I am new to this and have no idea what the freedom of information act is.  Can you direct me to somewhere where I can read it?

A couple more questions as I have no idea what to write.

1  Would I write to the present coroner for the area and give my mothers name details of when the inquest was held etc

2   Do I just put under the freedom of information act I am entitled to this

3  What would be available would it be the report that  I would ask for and would it give me all the information I needed or do I ask for anything else

Sorry to ask all these questions but have know idea what happens at an inquest and what information would be available

thanks again
Jacqui

Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: behindthefrogs on Wednesday 23 November 05 10:34 GMT (UK)
Just say that  "As a direct descendant you believe that under freedom of information act you are entitled to a copy of the full inquest report would they please provide it or provide an explanation as to why you are not entitled to receive it."

David
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: JAP on Wednesday 23 November 05 11:05 GMT (UK)
Dear Jacqui,

I don't know where you live but I do wonder whether:

1. there might be a general community service organisation locally which might be able to help you with your quest,

2. there might be a community legal aid, or community legal advice, service locally which might help.

I am in Australia and I would think that here (apart from Googling) it would be a good idea to look in the early pages of the telephone directory for possible sources of assistance.  Or approach your local Council or your local MP - and persevere (especially with the latter) if you keep getting fobbed off.

You seem to have been quite inappropriately fobbed off to date.  I think the advice from 'behind thefrogs' and your own ideas are excellent.

I wish you good luck in your search while warning that any information you find could be disturbing - so persevere only if you are prepared to deal with anything you find.

Very best regards,

JAP
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: uk2003 on Wednesday 23 November 05 11:30 GMT (UK)
Came across this link for the Manchester area, don't know if it is relevant to the rest of the country.

http://www.northmanchesterpct.nhs.uk/docs/medicalrecords0802.pdf#search='medical%20records%20crumpsall%20hospital'

Ken
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: Jones the Search on Wednesday 23 November 05 11:32 GMT (UK)
Hello Jacqui,
Just read your posting.
Go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau. (CAB) They are listed in all phone books.
They have access to legal advise; they will help draft a letter, to the appropriate person, to enable your request.
Hope this is help to you.
Patricia
Title: Re: Medical records?
Post by: Valda on Wednesday 23 November 05 20:04 GMT (UK)
This is Worcestershire Coroner's office website.

http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/home/wccindex/wcc-mas/wcc-mas-coroner/wcc-mas-coroner-charter.htm

The website gives you details on what information can be applied for after an inquest (subject to payable fees). The Coroner's office should also be able to advise on what is still obtainable and from whom after this distance of time. The information on the website doesn't seem to state that there is an issue under the Data Protection Act or that you have to be a next of kin - 'interested party' is what is quoted. This is presumably because the information once in the court is the public domain and can, and perhaps was published in local newspapers.

Regards
Valda